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“Joe, have you had any of your F Orders appealed for this type of building?”
My apologies for the tardy response to your question. I have not had one of my “f” orders appealed. I generally do a great deal of education with the owners to ensure they understand my interpretation of the Ontario Fire Code and or my abilities delegated to me via the FPPA. I also educate them on fire migration and the risk to the tenants, the building(s) and firefighters. I hardly ever have any of my orders appealed. I think it is because what I generally ask for is not unreasonable and makes sense to a layman person. Education and compassion are very powerful tools when performing the role of a fire prevention officer.
Good luck,
JoeG
Hello Karin,
I have seen these before and requested the owners replaced them with something their fire safety suppliers recommend. Most of the time this non-breakable transparent shield is installed by the owner who doesn’t know any better.
Hopefully this helps,
JoeG
FYI Chris – I tried your contact and he couldn’t do it so I purchased a download version of the amended OFC from service publications Ontario and brought it to staples. I gave them an old copy of the spiral bound code and they said they could replicate it. We are getting 4 of them for $280 with taxes.
Hello Lukasz,
We have our own build that our IT department created although we are switching to CriSys. We have had CriSys for two years now and it is not up and running yet so I cannot tell you much about it.
Good luck,
JoeG
Julien,
Vicky did a great job with her explanation but I just wanted to show you why 9.5 does not apply and how I would handle this. All municipalities and fire departments will handle something like this differently depending on a number of factors. I really try to consider the risk associated to the occupant/building(s) and achieve fire safety economically. I think hearing how different fire departments deal with this situation is a good thing.
SECTION 9.5 BUILDINGS UP TO AND INCLUDING 6 STOREYS IN BUILDING HEIGHT WITH RESIDENTIAL OCCUPANCIES
Subsection 9.5.1. Application and GeneralApplication
9.5.1.1. (1) This Section applies to buildings up to and including 6 storeys in building height with residential occupancies and containing
(a) more than two dwelling units where
Because 9.5 requires more than two dwelling units you cannot apply retrofit as Vicky has explained.
We have a lot of these buildings in North Bay and utilize an F order which Vicky did a great job explaining. These are the things I cover in my order depending on the configuration of the building and its associated fire risks. I have them protect all closures opening into the exit stairway (a door I feel will provide 20 minute fire protection rating, i.e. steel clad exterior door and not necessarily a fire rated door), install self closing devices on the doors, protect the of the exit stairway with type X drywall from the commercial occupancy if there is no fire separation , and if there is no acceptable fire separation between the commercial and dwelling units I would have them install hardwired interconnected smoke alarms at each level of the commercial occupancy and at each level of the exit stairway for the dwellings. This would provide early detection for the two dwelling units. Generally these buildings are in the downtown area and are interconnected with several others.
How much further I went with this building would depend on its complexity but generally how I would handle a building like this.
Plus, part 2 & 6 OFC…
Hopefully this also helps you.
Hopefully this helps.
Joe Gardiner
Hello Nicholas,
I have never seen a rating tag on a Kalamein door and I honestly don’t know if they come with one. I am sure there will be various opinions around the province on your question. I would more often accept a kalamein door but would consider the following conditions prior to my determination.
- Condition of the door – is it flimsy or sturdy.
- Occupant load of the floor area that the appliance room is on and the total occupant load of the building.
- Location of the appliance room. For example, does it open into an exit, is it in the basement or is adjacent to the assembly.
- Does the room posses automatic detection.
- Condition of the appliance(s).
I have done a lot of fire investigations and doors aren’t typically the weakest area of construction because they do not typically sustain direct flame impingement.
Hopefully this helps you.
JoeG
Hello,
We are pretty much under the same restrictions. Only perform inspections if they are absolutely necessary.
Joe Gardiner
North Bay
Hello Lesley-Anne,
I only enforce the requirements of the OFC unless the sprinkler company service report indicates they have inspected/tested as per NFPA 25. In my opinion there are no provisions for an FPO to only enforce NFPA 25. I commonly get questions from our local sprinkler companies about this very topic and I always reply I can only enforce the OFC requirements and leave it with the owner and sprinkler company to decide.
Keeping this in mind, I always inform the owner that they should seek guidance from their insurance company because their contract may stipulate they use NFPA 25. I find that in most cases their insurance company will require their sprinkler system to be inspect/test as per NFPA 25.
If I am at an inspection and see violations of the OFC I will always enforce by way of a fire inspection order.
Joe G
Good morning Jon,
Our office will always issue a fire order for your particular predicament if the owner cannot provide annual testing reports in conformance with CAN/ULC-S552 requirements. I would tell the “company” you are dealing with to follow CAN/ULC-S552 maintenance requirements. We do no education on this specific item and only issue fire orders for noncompliance. I would suggest that the company provide a report that will confirm they have tested the system to CAN/ULC-S552 maintenance requirements. Send me an email if you need further information.
JoeG
Hello Michelle,
Send me an email and I will provide you with what I have.
joe.gardiner@cityofnorthbay.ca
Joe Gardiner
Good morning Jon
Said Ismail from ESA wants more information.
“Thanks for bringing this to my attention. To be able to better understand the circumstances, I would like to know more about this situation, then I may be better equipped with a more complete picture. Some basic questions I would have are as follows:
– How much info was given to the ESA inspector (e.g. was the name of said building inspector provided?)
– Who was the inspector?
– How long ago was this?
– What was the nature of the questionable wiring, was it serious (i.e. hazardous) or did it just appear non-compliant), or was it only a qualification issue with the person who did the work?
– If they can provide address and any other pertinent info I can look into it and get a better understanding of what occurred”
Nicholas,
The OMFPOA members are currently having our general meeting and brought your question forward. No one currently sitting on the executive has a spare or extra challenge coin available for you.
Sorry we could not help you out,
To add to Steve’s comments. Please refer to enforcement TG-01-2012 link below. It is currently under review but this paticular topic is relevant and current. http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/english/FireMarshal/Legislation/TechnicalGuidelinesandReports/TG-2012-01.html#P347_68300
See excerpt below:
8.4 Swearing the Information and Service of Summons
The informant (assistant to the Fire Marshal) must prepare and bring the Information Form 105 before the justice who will consider the matter in the presence of the informant pursuant to Section 23 of the POA. The informant must bring a completed Summons for authorization by the justice in Form 106. The informant must demonstrate reasonable and probable grounds to believe that the person(s) named in the Information committed an offence, and swear under oath to the facts contained in the Information.Good morning,
I don’t know if you are aware but you can go to their website and look at it for free. You will have to sign up first. See link
https://www.shopulstandards.com/ProductDetail.aspx?UniqueKey=26638&ShowFreeviewModal=1
Joe Gardiner
North Bay
